[BALUG-Talk] The Goodness of Carpool messages - was RE: Carpool from Berkeley...

Thu Jun 26 14:46:12 PDT 2008

wtf?

On Jun 26, 2008, at 2:38 PM, john_re wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:22:10 -0700 (PDT), "Andrew Fife"
> <afife at untangle.com> said:
>> Hi John:
>>
>> While not totally off topic, your message about carpooling to PenLUG
>> would
>> be more appropriate for the PenLUG mailing list.  We don't want the  
>> BALUG
>> list to devolve into a LUG carpool list.
>
> The point is well taken about, to put it into the larger, & proper
> context, "the appropriate use of a community mailing list".  In  
> fact, I
> thought about that before I made my post.  In fact, I considered it
> multiple times from as many perspectives as I could which provided
> useful additional context.
>
> The considerations about posting a carpool communication &  
> "appropriate
> use of a mailng list" are really not about mailing lists per se, they
> are really about community communication.
>
> The larger, & proper context here, is about doing what is right for  
> the
> community as a whole, & lesserly about what might be relevant  
> particular
> or germane to the "major" or "main" or "main-specific" purpose of any
> one mailing list.
>
> For the community (let me specify it as the GNU(Linux) community) as a
> whole, rather than just BALUG, I believe the main consideration  
> guiding
> choice of action to take is "is the community as a whole better off  
> for
> the action occuring, or less well off".
>
> I believe that
> the more people that attend events like this,
> the more community knowledge is aquired,
> the more plesantness & goodness for people is acquired,
> the more potential for community development & progress is obtained
> (like, there is more knowledge in more peoples minds that can lead to
> more software development or deployment).
>
> Given the
> non trivial cost of traveling to such events, & the
> time involved in traveling, & the
> time involved in communication to arrange travel, & the
> small but significant barrier to making the first communication that
> get's the arrangements for carpooling started (posting the first
> "carpool from x to y for event z" message) [in physics this property  
> is
> called "activation energy"], & the
> increased benefit from posting additional _relevant_ messages once the
> first message text has been created,
> I believe it best to post carpool messages
> to wherever they are likely to do some good,
> in particular, to all the geographical points appropriate for
> carpooling between the endpoints of travel.
>
> In this case, I am traveling from Berkeley to SanMateo, via either
> SanFrancisco or Hayward.  Through those paths, the only relevant  
> groups
> are the endpoint ones - PenLUG & BUUG (Berkeley Unix Users Group) - &
> the in-between ones - which are only the two LUGs in SF, BALUG & SF- 
> LUG.
> - so that's where I posted the announcements.
>
> [Side note of evidence for validation of my beliefs:
> Before Monday I osted a carpool note about an event at FutureSalon, &
> two poeple from sf, from the sflug list, emailed me desiring to ride  
> in
> my carpool. - So, GNU(Linux) community members in SanFrancisco did in
> fact desire this effort of mine, as recently as of in this past week.]
>
> =====
> Thus:
> 1) "While not totally off topic" - correct, it is, at base, _not_ off
> topic.
>
> 2) "your message about carpooling to PenLUG would be more appropriate
> for the PenLUG mailing list." - correct, "more" & that's why I did  
> post
> it _there_, of course.
>
> 3) "We" -
> a) since you are some category of recognized "leader" for BALUG
> [minor note: I couldn't find your position listed on the website, &  
> dont
> recall from memory, thus don't know - are you the leader? president?
> speaker coordinator? It might be appropriate & useful to put that on  
> the
> website.]
> I of course recognize your right to use the group "we" at your
> discretion, without needing consultation with the members, when
> appropriate.
> b) But, in this case, I just note that the "we" [& I know this is a  
> side
> point, cause what I'm about to say_isn't_ what the following part of
> your sentence will state] isn't unanimous, [re the importnat value of
> carpooling notices] since there is at least one BALUG community member
> (myself), & probably more, who finds carpool announcements more of a
> benefit than detriment to the community
>
> 4) "don't want the BALUG list to devolve into a LUG carpool list." -
> a) Specifically, I think almost everyone would agree there is almost
> zero likelyhood of that specifically happening - since people are  
> almost
> certainly going to continue postings of non carpool matters, it could
> never happen that it would "devolve into a LUG carpool list".
> b) But generally, to address what I believe is the true idea behind  
> your
> statement, & also a likely possibility, that this list could indeed
> likely have more carpool notices on it than in the past:
> b1) I believe it would be not only a minor number of messages & no  
> more
> than a minor (call it whatever pejoritive is appropriate,
> "inconvenience"?) inconvenience to list readers,
> b2) & that inconvenience is greatly outweighed by the benefits to the
> community.
>
> So,
> 5a) I think relevant carpool messages are more of a benefit than
> detriment to the community, & thus should be both unofficially &
> officially encouraged.
> 5b) Thus I call upon you, Andrew, to post an "officially encouraging  
> of
> carpool announcements" to this list, to compensate for the (minorly,
> IMO) unbeneficial aspects of your post I'm replying to here. [Note: I
> just noticed you sent your email to me only, & not to the BALUG list,
> thus you didn't cause the detriment I mentioned in the previous  
> sentence
> - time is too short for me to rewrite that.]
>
> -----
> Pardon any typos & other minor mistakes - I'm very short on time, but
> thouht that your authority in the group, & the valid underlying  
> concerns
> in you message that are relevant to the GNU(Linux) community  
> deserved a
> prompt response, despite my limited time.
>
>
> Best wishes.
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