[Balug-admin] various BALUG administrivia: appropriateness for "announce", moderation, upcoming meeting, etc.

Michael Paoli Michael.Paoli@cal.berkeley.edu
Fri Feb 10 21:54:41 PST 2006

Uhm, could we please *not* approve such (job) postings to "announce"?
Please kindly direct them to the "talk" list, where such might possibly
be more accepted/tolerated (that's certainly at least my perspective on
the matter).

Many of us UNIX/LINUX types get plenty of calls and e-mails from folks looking
to hire UNIX/LINUX admins, and seeing yet more messages of this nature when
many of us are mostly not interested in such messages can be quite an

The announce list should be both low volume *and* quite
relevant/specific to BALUG.  If "we" deem it appropriate to include some
slight mention on the "announce" list, we might just put in a line or two
with URL(s) to the archived more detailed information on the "talk" list,
... and combine that with other BALUG "news" type mailing on the "announce"
list, so we avoid peppering folks with separate additional e-mails from the
"announce" list.  E.g., if one thinks there's stuff worth including or
including in brief on the "announce", we can always "discuss" it on "admin"
first, so we include (or decide not to include) appropriate content (or
reference to more detailed content) when item(s) do go out on the "announce"
list.  E.g., other opinions may vary, but I'd be inclined to include a
quite short mention (a few lines, and URL to more detailed information)
about the free computer giveaway information I sent to the "talk" list
(as there are likely lots of folks subscribed to "announce" that aren't
subscribed to "talk", ... but I wouldn't even consider posting that whole
darn thing to "announce" ... nor do I care to see most stuff, especially
from recruiters/agencies, going straight to the "announce" list (might
possibly be okay on the "talk" list - that's a more debatable area ...
whether "insider track" or other requirements would be appropriate on
"talk" is also debatable ... hasn't been much of an issue/problem on the
"talk" list - at least in recent years or so, so debating those
finer points for "talk" might be a bit premature presently).

By the way, that item I sent to "talk", last I checked, had bounced, pending
moderator approval.  One can see an archived version of it here:
where it was approved by a moderator on another list where it likewise
got held pending moderator approval (apparently due to number of
recipients listed):

Lots of folks subscribed to "announce" (and similar lists for other groups/
LUGS) are often only interested in following relatively high levels stuff
that's quite pertinent to the group, ... significant quantities of other
cruft in there can be found to be quite annoying, and can cause folks to
drop the subscription.  That's not the effect we want our "announce" list to
have on our subscribers.  Many groups/LUGs even have rather to quite
restrictive policies about posting job announcements even on their "talk"
or equivalent list(s) (or they have a separate "jobs" list) (e.g. the BUUG
policy is essentially "inside track only" - e.g. you are quite personally
acquainted with the environment/people, etc. (e.g. you're the hiring manager
or are in the group that has the opening, or something about that close).

Of course opinions can and will vary ;-) ... but I think we outlined the
general intent of the lists pretty well a while back (when we added the "admin"
list and moderated the "announce" list).

Of the BALUG lists, only "announce" should be moderated.  "talk" and "admin"
lists aren't moderated, and most commonly stuff shouldn't need to go through
moderation (except if posting comes in from non-subscriber, so we block
random spam and high-volume plastering stuff, and some other triggers (like
the number of recipients one that I managed to bump into for the first time).

Opinions may vary, ... but at least those are some of mine (for whatever
they're worth).

Also, ... meeting announcement, presentation/speaker, etc., ... we *may* have
a noteworthy speaker/presenter for our Feb. 21 meeting, ... or we might not
have anyone/anything particularly scheduled for that meeting.  I'm hoping we
might have an answer by about Monday or Tuesday (or possibly earlier), so we
can get out some kind of announcement (meeting reminder, if nothing else)
not later than about Tuesday of next week.  Also, ... are there other items
we should include with that item on the "announce" list?  (e.g short mention
of whatever might also be relevant with URL for more details, and anything
else that might possibly be of sufficiently high importance to warrant
"announce"?  I was thinking of including 1 to 3 lines + URL about the
computer giveaway stuff, but I'd only be inclined to do that after it's been
approved on "talk", so that it's available in the "talk" archives via
URL (it's not exceedingly time-critical, so that could always be tacked onto
an "announce" e-mailing further off in the future, if it's not in the "talk"
archives before we're ready to send out something on "announce").  Anything
else we might want to include/mention?

Oh, ... and also ... (among other things) we might want to review/tweak who's
on the list as moderators for the various BALUG lists ... if nothing else, it
might be useful to at least figure out who the moderators are presently on
the lists, and get that info. to the "admin" list (we can always figure out
later if we want to tweak it).

BALUG "announce" <balug-announce-balug.org at lists.balug.org> moderated

The BALUG "announce" list <balug-announce-balug.org at lists.balug.org>
should now be moderated.  Hopefully that will keep the list relatively low
traffic and more on-traget for more "important"/newsy BALUG 
focused/oriented announcements (e.g. meeting announcements/reminders, 
important BALUG news, etc.).

More general BALUG related discussions are of course always welcomed on 
the "talk" list <balug-talk-balug.org at lists.balug.org>, which remains 
"unmoderated" (though one must be a subscriber to the list, to post to it).

Quoting Larry Platzek <larryp@inow.com>:

> On Fri, 10 Feb 2006, Rick Moen wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:10:47 -0800
> > From: Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>
> > To: balug-admin@lists.balug.org
> > Subject: [Balug-admin] (forw) [Balug-announce] SWE,
> >     Production Engineering (3D Computer Graphics)
> > 
> > I'm guessing that posting permissions for balug-announce need to be
> > restricted, as my understanding is that it's supposed to be a
> > low-traffic place for announcements of BALUG and similar _events_ by
> > authorised parties, only.
> >
> > I do not have the listadmin password for balug-announce.  Someone else
> > will have to fix this.  I recommend changing the listwide setting that
> > makes it a moderated mailing list (to turn on moderation), and then
> > flipping on the Moderated bit for almost all subscribers in the
> > subscribers roster.
> >
> > The Moderated flag should be left turned off for people we trust to send
> > only appropriate announcements.  The result will be that all other
> > postings will be held for listadmin review.
> >
> > ----- Forwarded message from Elizabeth Palmore <epalmore@pixar.com> -----
> >
> > To: balug-announce@lists.balug.org
> > From: Elizabeth Palmore <epalmore@pixar.com>
> > Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 15:57:53 -0800
> > X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
> > Subject: [Balug-announce] SWE, Production Engineering (3D Computer
> Graphics)
> >
> > Software Engineer, Production Engineering
> > Pixar Animation Studios
> > Emeryville, CA
> big snip.
> >
> > ----- End forwarded message -----
> > _______________________________________________
> > balug-admin mailing list
> > balug-admin@lists.balug.org
> > http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-admin-balug.org
> >
> Rick, are you objecting to the message on the announce list?
> Would you have liked the posting to the talk list?
> The posting to the list was done Feb. 8 and not seen untill the Feb 10.
> Was the posting not held untill someone approved it?
> In fact I know it was approved by someone, me.
> I am glad you are concerned the posts by non members are moderated.
> I think all three lists are moderated. Note said "think" will check on 
> later today.
> Larry Platzek  larryp@inow.com

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