And, for those that may not have seen it and may be interested,
also archived at:
https://lists.balug.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/balug-admin@lists.balug.or…
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Michael Paoli <michael.paoli(a)berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 6:17 AM
Subject: list acceptance/moderation and balug-announc(a)lists.balug.org
hold --> discard for most users
To: BALUG-Admin <balug-admin(a)lists.balug.org>
One thing I do like about Mailman 3 is all the available message
acceptance settings, both for list default, and per user.
Those include:
List default -- follow the list's default member action.
Hold -- This holds the message for approval by the list moderators.
Reject -- this automatically rejects the message by sending a bounce
notice to the post's author. The text of the bounce notice can be
configured by you.
Discard -- this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the
post's author.
Accept -- accepts any postings without any further checks.
Default Processing -- run additional checks and accept the message.
Most notably - Discard highly useful to set non-members to Discard.
Likewise for moderated list(s) where few are allowed to post (e.g.
balug-announce(a)lists.balug.org).
Makes listadmin life fair bit easier, as most all such posting attempts,
that would otherwise be held for moderation on Mailman 2, can be simply
discarded, as almost all of them are junk/garbage/spam and the like -
maybe only about once a year or so does a legitimate message come in
that way. And Reject really isn't that useful, as that happens after
the email has already been received, rather than at SMTP time, so there
would be backscatter issues with that (the overwhelming number of such
mail is spam, and those are typically rather to quite forged senders,
victim compromised accounts, etc.).
And ... not sure exactly how much I (dis)like it on Mailman 3,
but Mailman 2 data was mostly in python 2 pickle (.pck) format files,
with data/configuration bits also being in flat (and also html) files.
Well, Mailman 3, while some configuration bits are stored in flat
configuration files, for better and/or worse, most of the data is stored
in an actual relatively proper database (e.g. sqlite).
So, balug-announce(a)lists.balug.org e.g. imported from Mailman 2,
most all users had the moderation set to hold (Mailman 2 didn't have a
discard option). On Mailman 3 I set the list default to discard for
that list. But almost all users were imported from Mailman 2 and that
import preserved their hold setting. I wanted to change it for those
users to the list default (discard). A bit to chase it down in the
database, but once found and reasonably tested, one SQL statement to do
the needed:
UPDATE member SET moderation_action = NULL WHERE list_id =
'balug-announce.lists.balug.org' and moderation_action = 0;
... and with that done for 492 users. Yay!(?)
Not super easy/pleasant but ... well, compared to Mailman 2,
yeah I think it's at least fair bit better than Mailman 2,
at least on that point/feature/capability.
Well ... I see this one, looks to be direct, not via list.
I'm guessing a BCC: michael.paoli(a)berkeley.edu or the like, as I'm not
otherwise seeing one of my addresses in the headers. And did land in
the "Spam" folder for that mailbox (which is hosted by gmail ... it's
only semi-smart about these things). Gmail mostly accepts (almost)
everything ... fairly permissive ... though it will SMTP reject some
things. And what it does accept, much is place in user's Spam rather
than Inbox, and probably some fair bit is also silently discarded.
I don't think it made it to balug-test(a)lists.balug.org list.
Mailman may likely have silently dropped it with
or the like. If it was hard bounced, you should be able to see that.
# grep -A 2 -a -e
'f5e9353b-1a90-49a3-9239-d9acd4787b39(a)ronaldbarnes.ca'
/var/log/exim4/mainlog
2024-09-09 10:47:54 1snbvv-001iPM-0J <= ron(a)ronaldbarnes.ca
H=mail.ronaldbarnes.ca [2607:5300:203:b716::1:2] P=esmtps
X=TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA256__AES_256_GCM:256 CV=no
S=1820 id=f5e9353b-1a90-49a3-9239-d9acd4787b39(a)ronaldbarnes.ca
2024-09-09 10:47:54 1snbvv-001iPM-0J => balug-test(a)lists.balug.org
R=lman3_router T=mailman3_transport H=localhost [127.0.0.1] C="250 Ok"
2024-09-09 10:47:54 1snbvv-001iPM-0J Completed
#
Looks like it was accepted, then probably silently discarded by
Mailman 3, per its (default) configuration on that for that list.
It will also silently discard if the email attempting the post isn't
subscribed. Yup:
# grep -a -F -e 'f5e9353b-1a90-49a3-9239-d9acd4787b39(a)ronaldbarnes.ca'
/var/log/mailman3/mailman.log
Sep 09 10:47:55 2024 (1928) DISCARD:
<f5e9353b-1a90-49a3-9239-d9acd4787b39(a)ronaldbarnes.ca>; ['The message
is not from a list member']
#
By the way, Mailman 3, can actually have multiple email addresses
associated with a web UI login account. I think if you do that and the
account is subscribed, then it will handle post from any of them as if
it was from that same account. Not sure if I've (fully) tested that,
though.
Can also be done the "old fashioned" Mailman 2 way too. E.g. subscribe
multiple email addresses. Then just configure to disable delivery on
those one doesn't want it to (also) send to.
Anyway, full headers:
Delivered-To: michael.paoli(a)berkeley.edu
Received: by 2002:a50:d69b:0:b0:5c2:524b:7173 with SMTP id r27csp1432752edi;
Mon, 9 Sep 2024 03:47:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2;
AJvYcCVmb60v7myMeyIPUrpCLNA2WLEQ3aRi/2QbEFDiKH/JsiC017t3nEDPTdyH+DxURn2lvovKmRo55uLOrg8t(a)berkeley.edu
X-Google-Smtp-Source:
AGHT+IG/DdCBvm/o4lvbpt8OWjOSned6JSGVWWirrDC+NaIqPCsLd/AhavxaRQplTtCmUdgl89cq
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:2f0e:b0:6a9:4fdd:94e5 with SMTP id
00721157ae682-6db44dc3925mr80625247b3.13.1725878871891;
Mon, 09 Sep 2024 03:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1725878871; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=YrlvlQXadXYWFmSParbxeRcrZ/YX8RZdbWJVEJ+Q1IGl1QTvKpZ19JjUoGfvVFHjuo
GctzmhW+mumbcgDE58OajfiSWNw4pWuq1RY8nJl/SnD51/DcAYiFG5KhR3kcMOpyxR7Y
hpbUuXrUpPws5MjvSVYXaYv+72Qvr+QF6Oa5sAAVxCgevuFWY0o/KWtLSej8YTJhuGo4
BXoPZbq+VF50kYIqXRnGDMZb7HvofX/k9yxx7WC+pMKqbB+yy/UNj0NB3sz8D0jum8mw
+z4rHtivArcAzvkhdoaOQBos9Hk6J21feF9U4vRG2hD7cCuzExn8iWPsAiSDA0GfSBX/
llFw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=content-transfer-encoding:content-language:to:subject:from
:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
bh=j4IBpWb0VumAfR52wFNzlrA/c//61nKypSkWi2h64SE=;
fh=FYc1kiEE0oWkC6PFsL7NyqIq6QFuEUeU9nltPQzM5SI=;
b=hIi/Rw5P/Xev63ZZlqbT8Nu8ylueZShtw7w3X6Z09bxYQNykyD43mr8T/jSEMOX/go
mlf/oCDfrUytTSf1cMU1J5MhzyM1IuLg7tifznoLQ5aXcEmDatX9IZ+uPC0YoXAMM9No
6hMVoUNvOg8zkvQho9REUB/toj5/St8w410rVz8b1peePH+AmutmUImFl/vjYfqwdc6y
fLAMuHX0knXZP2EKLwi6ZE2Ve82HRHfapUk0fLQ2Utg2aWgC/Q50XBbKh8b7jiyqwnEh
DQhil7hnHvGi3uk67kM+oA47HdnfkYx4lzNYotE+FlcabAAHvEUX7uKFxXMC9IRQnpJT
SFqQ==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of ron(a)ronaldbarnes.ca designates
144.217.187.82 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ron(a)ronaldbarnes.ca;
dmarc=pass (p=REJECT sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=ronaldbarnes.ca
Return-Path: <ron(a)ronaldbarnes.ca>
Received: from mail.ronaldbarnes.ca (mail.ronaldbarnes.ca. [144.217.187.82])
by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id
af79cd13be357-7a9a7a53444si509352385a.539.2024.09.09.03.47.51
for <michael.paoli(a)berkeley.edu>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
Mon, 09 Sep 2024 03:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ron(a)ronaldbarnes.ca
designates 144.217.187.82 as permitted sender)
client-ip=144.217.187.82;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of ron(a)ronaldbarnes.ca designates
144.217.187.82 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ron(a)ronaldbarnes.ca;
dmarc=pass (p=REJECT sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=ronaldbarnes.ca
Received: from [10.60.42.104] (69-172-190-161.cable.teksavvy.com
[69.172.190.161]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(128/128 bits)
key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client
certificate requested) by mail.ronaldbarnes.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA
id C94FA81C5E for <balug(a)ronaldbarnes.ca>; Mon,
9 Sep 2024 03:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <f5e9353b-1a90-49a3-9239-d9acd4787b39(a)ronaldbarnes.ca>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 03:47:50 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
From: Ronald Barnes <ron(a)ronaldbarnes.ca>
Subject: Testing: mailing list aliases
To: balug(a)ronaldbarnes.ca
Content-Language: en-CA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Gm-Spam: 1
X-Gm-Phishy: 0
On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 3:47 AM Ronald Barnes <ron(a)ronaldbarnes.ca> wrote:
>
>
> (RESENT - cannot spell Berkeley at this late hour, BAlug, not SFlug)
>
>
> > the sending to off-site ... yeah, that'd be a general no-no.
>
> I thought I'd do one last test before bed:
>
> I've set up a virtual_alias (virtual transport on postfix) to test this.
>
>
> If I send to balug(a)ronaldbarnes.ca, that address is aliased to Michael,
> balug-test(a)lists.balug.org, and my bclug.ca address.
>
>
> Let's see what happens... can't hurt.
>
>
> Let me know if this goes through. I imagine BerkelEy.edu would be the
> most restrictive in accepting my goofy experiment.
>
>
> rb
Michael Paoli via BALUG-Test wrote on 2024-09-08 14:31:
> I do really want to keep the footer short, like 3 lines maximum, per
> various best practices, etc. Alas, folks mostly tend to ignore what's
> there anyway.
For what it's worth, the MM3 mailing list has these 4 lines of footer
(plus a "sent to ...@..."):
_______________________________________________
Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org
https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/
Archived at:
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message…
This message sent to admin(a)bclug.ca
Works okay, IMHO. Helps legibility when URLs are converted to hyperlinks
by the MUA.
Anyway, looks like you've been doing a real deep dive into MM3, so now I
know who to ask when I have issues... Or when I'm asked questions, I can
refer 'em to you.
Ha.
rb