BALUG-Talk April 2025

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3 discussions

Re: Discussion topic(s) for Tuesday's meeting? :-)
by Darrion Burgess 15 Apr '25

15 Apr '25

Sorry for late reply, This sounds like just what I was hoping to learn about To give some context, I am currently trying to learn how to make reproducible OS builds using mkosi <https://github.com/systemd/mkosi> One of the big advantages of the tool is that is helps get closer to the points outlined in Fitting Everything together <https://0pointer.net/blog/fitting-everything-together.html> by Pottering in which he outlines some key goals including: - increasing usage of the TPM to increase security - self-signing keys so we can have operating systems that are both immutable AND hackable (no more corporate signed keys!) - ensuring the validity of the entire stack by using secure boot, encrypted home drives, and sandboxing for user applications to make a more secure environment All of this is with the goal of running particleos <https://github.com/systemd/particleos> eventually but i would settle for just a custom-rolled arch distro that I upgrade in A/B fashion. But one of the fundamental assumptions of all of this is that im self-signing keys and using them for everything from secure-boot, to my home drive if necessary but I have held off from learning these security topics until now! On Thu, Apr 10, 2025 at 10:54 PM Michael Paoli via BALUG-Talk < balug-talk(a)lists.balug.org> wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael Paoli <michael.paoli(a)berkeley.edu> > To: BALUG-Talk <balug-talk(a)lists.balug.org> > Cc: Darrion Burgess <dargondab9(a)gmail.com> > Bcc: > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2025 22:52:53 -0700 > Subject: [BALUG-Talk] Discussion topic(s) for Tuesday's meeting? :-) > Thanks all, yes meeting last month was excellent, thanks for making it > so! > > So, I was thinking, topic(s) (not that we need be limited to such) for > meeting this month (soon - Tuesday!) ... and following a bit from last > month's meeting, perhaps something along the lines: > Linux encryption and security hardware. > So, perhaps around LUKS, TPM chip, YubiKey, FIDO2, etc. > More-or-less extension of fair bit that was discussed at last meeting. > And, not too horribly redundant with presentations/talks/topics that > have been done at BALUG before (e.g. done LUKS presentation before, > have at least had security as topic, but don't think we've (much) > covered TPM chip, YubiKey, FIDO2, etc. before, so was thinking to mix it > up and expand it a bit more. > Also, did we have some other question(s)/topic(s) from last meeting that > we didn't quite get around to covering? > > Feel free to let me know your thoughts, and I'll put together at > least something regarding (at least leading, but by no means limited to) > topics for the meeting, and will get that then updated on the web site, > and also use that for items sent to the Announce list before the > meeting. Anyway, I'm hoping/aiming to get that done and at least > initial bits out in the next couple days or so > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael Paoli via BALUG-Talk <balug-talk(a)lists.balug.org> > To: BALUG-Talk <balug-talk(a)lists.balug.org> > Cc: Darrion Burgess <dargondab9(a)gmail.com> > Bcc: > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2025 22:52:53 -0700 > Subject: [BALUG-Talk] Discussion topic(s) for Tuesday's meeting? :-) > _______________________________________________ > list: BALUG-Talk(a)lists.balug.org help: https://lists.balug.org/help/ > unsubscribe email: balug-talk-unsubscribe(a)lists.balug.org

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Getting started with Linux from Microsoft Windows, macOS, etc. (was: Linux w/in MS-Windows... great chat! extended)
by Michael Paoli 11 Apr '25

11 Apr '25

Well, for starting to dip the toe into Linux, from Microsoft Windows or macOS ... On non-ancient Microsoft Windows, for ease of entry, I'd probably first point to Microsoft's WSL - as such is pretty conveniently available, and tightly integrates with Microsoft Windows, so it makes it quite easy to, e.g. move data back and forth, and generally access resources of one from the other. Been a while since I mucked about with WSL, but one thing I found (quite) annoying with it, though it's quite the Linux(-like) operating environment, it's not "really" a Linux operating system - at least not fully so - and not even a VM. So, if one is rather to quite used to Linux, and using and treating it as a system, and probably even more so administration thereof ... well, yeah, there's a lot of stuff one will bump into that just won't work, because it's not really and fully an installed running Linux operating system, nor even such in a VM. But "other than that", yeah, sure, mostly seems to work quite well, and hard to beat for easily available on (non-ancient) Microsoft Windows and good tight integration. Next I might suggest Oracle's VirtualBox. And, it has its advantages and disadvantages. There is of course the whole Oracle is evil thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=1980s etc., but some of the other disadvantages, over the years, Oracle has made it increasingly difficult to do more custom installations of Linux. Still quite possible, but in more recent years, VirtualBox wants to be "smart" and "help", by recognizing many Linux ISOs, and for those it recognizes, essentially to large extent taking over and automating/controlling the installation, making it much more difficult to have access to the more typical means by which Linux would generally be installed from ISO, and accessing its menus and options and installation dialogs and such - and instead VirtualBox just gives one its choices, and hides all those other details from one. Anyway, is still (at least last I checked) possible to do the more customary VM install, quite as if one were simply booting the ISO, and installing from what it offers, and with its menus and dialogs, etc., but VirtualBox just makes it increasingly difficult to manage to do such an install. Anyway, those are the among the most frustrating bits I find with VirtualBox ... though last I actually did an install from it was likely year or more ago - and has been about half a year since I've used VirtualBox - but I've often heavily used it, notably in $work environments, on macOS and/or Microsoft Windows. And, it does have the advantages that it is a full VM, unlike, e.g. WSL (or Cygwin, or Homebrew). It also has good integration with Microsoft Windows / macOS (notably filesystem access, etc.), but not as tightly integrated as WSL. What I may quite suggest though (alas, haven't yet done so myself, but if I were about to do a fresh installation to Microsoft Windows or macOS, probably where I'd start), although significantly more complex to set up, would be Homebrew, and with/from that, qemu/kvm, libvirt and friends, etc. I think that gives a significantly better VM platform, though it's fair bit more fiddly bits to get that all set up and nicely working, and also bit more work to do, e.g. filesystem integration bits. But once all in place, probably well worth it. Yes, one of my work peers had gone that direction, and the results were most excellent. So, though I've not yet done that myself, I'd think the results and capabilities would be very much like where I've done quite similar where the host OS is Linux ... but not with Homebrew in there, but including all the other relevant bits, e.g. qemu/kvm, and libvirt and friends. I've not added tight filesystem integration between VMs and the physical host OS with that though, with or without Homebrew ... - I've not yet had/felt compelling need ... but were I doing it on Microsoft Windows or macOS, or otherwise needed to more directly share lots of files between VM and physical host, then I'd probably take the additional steps to set that up. Other worthy of mention bits ... Dual boot - once upon a time, that was generally what folks were pointed at, and most Linux distros make installing that way pretty easy. The big downsides with that, though, it's more complex than doing, e.g. WSL or VirtualBox to have installed and up and running, and probably more importantly, with dual boot - one only runs one OS at at time. And with that, most folks typically end up spending most all their time just running one, and not doing much with the other ... and most of the time that means not doing much with Linux and often effectively giving up on it relatively early on. But there still are some circumstances where I'd recommend dual boot. E.g. if one is transitioning, notably to entirely switch away from whatever the other OS is, or is on that particular physical host, then dual boot is best way to be sure one knows exactly how it will behave on that particular hardware, get any associated kinks worked out, etc. So, e.g., when I fist ran Linux in 1989, yeah, I was doing dual boot ... Linux first on floppies, then dual boot on the hard drive (and may have still required a boot floppy for the way I was set up), and finally completing my migration from UNIX to Linux. And back then, VM was totally infeasible if not for all intents and purposes impossible, for the hardware and its resources I was using at the time. So, sometimes dual boot is the answer, but these days, most of the time it's not the answer / best fit. There's also Homebrew itself - not Linux, but can provide much of a *nix-like environment on, e.g. Microsoft Windows or MacOS. For X11 on MacOS, I found XQuartz to work highly well. For X11 on Microsoft Windows, been years since I did it, but I found Cygwin/X worked quite well. And, somewhat similar to Homebrew, for Microsoft Windows, there's Cygwin, though been years since I ran Cygwin on Microsoft Windows, so not sure how it's comparing capability-wise and such to Homebrew these days (in fact I've not run Homebrew on Microsoft Windows, but have generally heard quite good things from those that have). From other platforms, e.g. the BSDs, what options are (feasibly) available may be bit different. Of course dual boot is a possibility, some VM technologies may well work, and there may be some other possibilities too - of the various bits mentioned, not sure which may be available to the BSDs. Oh, another worthy of mention - VMware - they may have different possibilities available for various platforms, but licensing and/or cost may be an issue, depending upon environment, what they do/don't currently offer (and notably what for free and under what terms), etc., and what they do offer, may be subject to change (with ownership change in recent years, that's been a bit more bumpy ... but hopefully that's more settling/settled out at this point). Anyway, I haven't run such in some fair number of years now - don't know if they even offer software for running on macOS. Anyway, it has been a good option in past, not sure about most current. And, I may be missing some bits, but I think those are at least most that come up in conversations, etc., regarding various relevant possibilities. On Sun, Mar 23, 2025 at 12:26 PM aaronco thirtysix via BALUG-Talk <balug-talk(a)lists.balug.org> wrote: > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: aaronco36(a)sdf.org > To: balug-talk(a)lists.balug.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2025 19:26:06 -0000 > Subject: [BALUG-Talk] Linux w/in MS-Windows... great chat! extended > Quoted snippet of Darrion Burgess from BALUG-Talk thread > https://lists.balug.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/balug-talk@lists.balug.org… > : > > > > to start, the easiest way to ease into is using the windows subsystem > > for linux (WSL) so you can try out different distributions using > > the windows terminal. > > > > Its even sophisticated enough to have a wayland compositor at this > > point so you can even run GUI apps from the linux containers. > > Besides WSL, another good(IMHO) means of more easily running Linux distros > w/in MS-Windows is to use Oracle VirtualBox > Quoting its main site https://www.virtualbox.org/ : > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > VirtualBox is a general-purpose full virtualization > software for x86_64 hardware (with version 7.1 > additionally for macOS/Arm), targeted at laptop, > desktop, server and embedded use. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > The VirtualBox 7.1.6 platform packages dwonloads for Windows and other OS > hosts can be found at https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads > > Am concurrently attending both the in-person and Jit.si Meet virtual > meetups of the Berkeley Linux Users Group https://berkeleylug.com/ -- and > am using VirtualBox for Debian GNU/Linux 12.x 'Bookworm' as hosting OS on > a second laptop. > VBox works great and is more [ful]filling! :-D > > -A > -- > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: aaronco thirtysix via BALUG-Talk <balug-talk(a)lists.balug.org> > To: balug-talk(a)lists.balug.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2025 19:26:06 -0000 > Subject: [BALUG-Talk] Linux w/in MS-Windows... great chat! extended > _______________________________________________ > list: BALUG-Talk(a)lists.balug.org help: https://lists.balug.org/help/ > unsubscribe email: balug-talk-unsubscribe(a)lists.balug.org

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Discussion topic(s) for Tuesday's meeting? :-)
by Michael Paoli 11 Apr '25

11 Apr '25

Thanks all, yes meeting last month was excellent, thanks for making it so! So, I was thinking, topic(s) (not that we need be limited to such) for meeting this month (soon - Tuesday!) ... and following a bit from last month's meeting, perhaps something along the lines: Linux encryption and security hardware. So, perhaps around LUKS, TPM chip, YubiKey, FIDO2, etc. More-or-less extension of fair bit that was discussed at last meeting. And, not too horribly redundant with presentations/talks/topics that have been done at BALUG before (e.g. done LUKS presentation before, have at least had security as topic, but don't think we've (much) covered TPM chip, YubiKey, FIDO2, etc. before, so was thinking to mix it up and expand it a bit more. Also, did we have some other question(s)/topic(s) from last meeting that we didn't quite get around to covering? Feel free to let me know your thoughts, and I'll put together at least something regarding (at least leading, but by no means limited to) topics for the meeting, and will get that then updated on the web site, and also use that for items sent to the Announce list before the meeting. Anyway, I'm hoping/aiming to get that done and at least initial bits out in the next couple days or so

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