On Mastodon, I'm @unixmercenary@infosec.exchange.
As such, I just tooted this (https://infosec.exchange/@unixmercenary/112534258603738688 ):
may be seeking a new #DNSregistrar. Once upon a time, there was a highly clueful one named ideegeo Group, Ltd. d/b/a IWantMyName.com in Wellington, NZ, technically a retail reseller for large German registrar 1API.
Early on, their staff efficiently and quickly fixed an odd problem, where my two domains were suddenly private WHOIS against my wishes: The tech found that 1API had unilaterally toggled everyone private to quickly comply with GDPR rollout -- and intervened to revert that on my domains.
Roll forward to 2019. British multinational CentralNic Group PLC acquired ideegeo Group Ltd., and shut down the NZ operation.
Uh-oh.
About a year later, I saw that my domains were suddenly private WHOIS again, saw still nothing in the customer WebUI to adjust that, and opened another ticket, referencing the first one, speculating 1API might have done it again, and asking the same fix.
A tech from the new lot immediately closed the ticket with the explanation that the operator of the .com and .net TLDs had imposed private WHOIS on all domains, and therefore IWantMyName was powerless to help me.
I almost accepted this pile of bullhockey, but then thought to cross-check, among others, domains 1API.net and IWantMyName.com -- whose public WHOIS data immediately disproved the nonsense claim. I reopened the ticket, pointing out their claim is provably wrong, and reiterating my request.
The tech closed the ticket again with the comment that he'd repeated what the technical staff told him -- not commenting on the fact that it was provably false.
I escalated this matter to corporate staff in London, saying that gaslighting customers is uncool, that I could easily take business elsewhere, and that I'd be deciding that in a couple of days. A senior tech in London reopened the case, told me he' fix things, did so, explained that first-level techs had relied on bad information, and observed (justly) that few customers wished to eschew private WHOIS. As resolution occurred before my deadline, I stayed.
Yesterday, after verifying that IWantMyName.com's customer WebUI still doesn't permit early renewal, I opened a new ticket saying "Please manually extend by two years each of my domains linuxmafia.com and unixmercenary.net, please charge my credit card of record number NNNN for the US $95.26 entailed, and please do that now."
I got back a response saying:
"We currently only register and renew domains automatically for one year at a time.
We've found that longer registration periods lead to a higher chance of customers losing or forgetting their account details or missing notifications and ultimately letting their domains expire due to outdated contact information for expired credit card details.
The annual notifications serve as a reminder of sorts to keep everything up to date. Or, if something unexpected happens and the domain is no longer needed, it can be cancelled with no time/money lost.
If you have any other questions, just let us know."
I waited a day, then wrote back saying I'd seen no action on my request. The tech referred me to the above statement.
I wrote back:
"That was not even anywhere near an answer to my request.
I didn't ask about automatic renewal policy. I requested manual processing of two-year extension, now, for each of my two domains, charging the appropriate fees totalling US $95.26 to my credit card of record.
Please do that now.
I will continue to escalate this matter, if it is not addressed."
This is in "You had one job" territory, nicht wahr? Any fellow Ops people with clueful-registrar suggestions? Needing to escalate routine requests has gotten old.
For the record, for good and compelling reasons, I keep domains a long way from expiration, run a weekly cron job executing d-check (http://linuxmafia.com/pub/linux/network/) to watch whois for upcoming renewal dates, and renew well in advance of need.
Likewise, I insist on public WHOIS so it can fulfil its design role of permitting contact, by anyone observing a problem or other matter needing attention, to the Administrative, Technical, and Registrant contacts as appropriate.
"You'll be doxed", someone says says? Funny, that: Maybe they might use the real street address, real telephone number, real e-mail address, and "ICBM address" (latitude, longitude, and altitude of my favourite chair) on my personal Web page, instead.
Uhm, no, I wouldn't put Joker.com at the top of the list. In fact I'd rank 'em below competent. https://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=system:registrars#jokercom
On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 11:38 PM Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com wrote:
On Mastodon, I'm @unixmercenary@infosec.exchange.
As such, I just tooted this (https://infosec.exchange/@unixmercenary/112534258603738688 ):
may be seeking a new #DNSregistrar. Once upon a time, there was a highly clueful one named ideegeo Group, Ltd. d/b/a IWantMyName.com in Wellington, NZ, technically a retail reseller for large German registrar 1API.
Early on, their staff efficiently and quickly fixed an odd problem, where my two domains were suddenly private WHOIS against my wishes: The tech found that 1API had unilaterally toggled everyone private to quickly comply with GDPR rollout -- and intervened to revert that on my domains.
Roll forward to 2019. British multinational CentralNic Group PLC acquired ideegeo Group Ltd., and shut down the NZ operation.
Uh-oh.
About a year later, I saw that my domains were suddenly private WHOIS again, saw still nothing in the customer WebUI to adjust that, and opened another ticket, referencing the first one, speculating 1API might have done it again, and asking the same fix.
A tech from the new lot immediately closed the ticket with the explanation that the operator of the .com and .net TLDs had imposed private WHOIS on all domains, and therefore IWantMyName was powerless to help me.
I almost accepted this pile of bullhockey, but then thought to cross-check, among others, domains 1API.net and IWantMyName.com -- whose public WHOIS data immediately disproved the nonsense claim. I reopened the ticket, pointing out their claim is provably wrong, and reiterating my request.
The tech closed the ticket again with the comment that he'd repeated what the technical staff told him -- not commenting on the fact that it was provably false.
I escalated this matter to corporate staff in London, saying that gaslighting customers is uncool, that I could easily take business elsewhere, and that I'd be deciding that in a couple of days. A senior tech in London reopened the case, told me he' fix things, did so, explained that first-level techs had relied on bad information, and observed (justly) that few customers wished to eschew private WHOIS. As resolution occurred before my deadline, I stayed.
Yesterday, after verifying that IWantMyName.com's customer WebUI still doesn't permit early renewal, I opened a new ticket saying "Please manually extend by two years each of my domains linuxmafia.com and unixmercenary.net, please charge my credit card of record number NNNN for the US $95.26 entailed, and please do that now."
I got back a response saying:
"We currently only register and renew domains automatically for one year at a time.
We've found that longer registration periods lead to a higher chance of customers losing or forgetting their account details or missing notifications and ultimately letting their domains expire due to outdated contact information for expired credit card details.
The annual notifications serve as a reminder of sorts to keep everything up to date. Or, if something unexpected happens and the domain is no longer needed, it can be cancelled with no time/money lost.
If you have any other questions, just let us know."
I waited a day, then wrote back saying I'd seen no action on my request. The tech referred me to the above statement.
I wrote back:
"That was not even anywhere near an answer to my request.
I didn't ask about automatic renewal policy. I requested manual processing of two-year extension, now, for each of my two domains, charging the appropriate fees totalling US $95.26 to my credit card of record.
Please do that now.
I will continue to escalate this matter, if it is not addressed."
This is in "You had one job" territory, nicht wahr? Any fellow Ops people with clueful-registrar suggestions? Needing to escalate routine requests has gotten old.
For the record, for good and compelling reasons, I keep domains a long way from expiration, run a weekly cron job executing d-check (http://linuxmafia.com/pub/linux/network/) to watch whois for upcoming renewal dates, and renew well in advance of need.
Likewise, I insist on public WHOIS so it can fulfil its design role of permitting contact, by anyone observing a problem or other matter needing attention, to the Administrative, Technical, and Registrant contacts as appropriate.
"You'll be doxed", someone says says? Funny, that: Maybe they might use the real street address, real telephone number, real e-mail address, and "ICBM address" (latitude, longitude, and altitude of my favourite chair) on my personal Web page, instead.
Quoting Michael Paoli via BALUG-Admin (balug-admin@lists.balug.org):
Uhm, no, I wouldn't put Joker.com at the top of the list. In fact I'd rank 'em below competent. https://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=system:registrars#jokercom
_Cannot_ opt out of private registration? Deal-breaker for me. Not acceptable. (But wait...) I see this was officially proclaimed in 2019, as described here -- and revealed by... me. http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2019q2/013971.html
Back in 2019, that policy was proclaimed on https://joker.com/index.joker#gdpr , but, not a shocker, that URL no longer reveals fsck-all. And their FAQs are useless on this matter.
_2018_ page: https://www.ote.joker.com/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=5&id=476&...
Some of their documentation suggests that the price list will reveal domain pricing with vs. without WHOIS privacy. The current price list is unrevealing (https://joker.com/domain/prices), except, e.g., for .com, it _does_ suggest that the Registrant can opt either for WHOIS privacy or not.
I was irked by, and aware of, the "unable to repoint glue records" annoyance, but would have been willing to live with that -- if it's still the same, long decades after I ceased using their services.
Unfortunately, none of the others you catalogue appear to appeal at all, with the possible exception fo the ex-Google Domains Squarespace registrar -- which you portray as as question mark.
I'd still highly recommend Gandi.net. Alas, acquired by Total Webhosting Solutions B.V. (TWS) (https://your.online/), but at least thus far they seem to know enough not to f*sck it up, and thus far everything I've seen still functions and behaves very much like Gandi.net, including solid support, documentation, etc. I think there are probably some minor changes in offerings, and probably also some few other details like that, but at least thus far it highly functions as it did before.
Such is not the case for many that have been through other registar transitions, e.g. domains.google --> Squarespace, or at least some of the transitions you've been through via acquisitions or the like.
AWS would even be a sane choice. They've got a fsck ton of other stuff too, but at least they're generally quite competent, and certainly well documented, solid APIs, etc. Interfaces might be a bit funky and/or overwhelming for one who only wants registrar ... but it's still not too difficult to navigate that (Hint: Route 53: domains - that's probably 90 to 95% of all one needs to know to figure out how to do registrar services on AWS). Not sure where they are with GDPR and privacy and such - but whatever it is it's likely well documented. If you need more info. on that and can't otherwise find it easily enough, let me know - have $work AWS goop, so I could probably peek in some more detail in those interfaces and see what options it offers ... though I think $work is mostly not using AWS for registrar (and not on account of any deficiencies there, but rather for other reasons). And have dealt with AWS as registrar fair amount before (at least with some former employer(s), if not also including current) ... never had any issues with it. Anyway, if AWS might be a serious consideration, check out their documentation - it's pretty solid and likely answers (most?) all the relevant questions.
And ... given the number of registrars out there, there are probably other perfectly sane choices too ... it's just most of 'em I've got no direct experience and often don't even have 2nd hand highly credible reports/information on most of 'em ... at least considering most of the criteria that you and I typically care about (alas, many customers don't care about those things).
On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 10:30 PM Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com wrote:
Quoting Michael Paoli via BALUG-Admin (balug-admin@lists.balug.org):
Uhm, no, I wouldn't put Joker.com at the top of the list. In fact I'd rank 'em below competent. https://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=system:registrars#jokercom
_Cannot_ opt out of private registration? Deal-breaker for me. Not acceptable. (But wait...) I see this was officially proclaimed in 2019, as described here -- and revealed by... me. http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2019q2/013971.html
Back in 2019, that policy was proclaimed on https://joker.com/index.joker#gdpr , but, not a shocker, that URL no longer reveals fsck-all. And their FAQs are useless on this matter.
_2018_ page: https://www.ote.joker.com/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=5&id=476&...
Some of their documentation suggests that the price list will reveal domain pricing with vs. without WHOIS privacy. The current price list is unrevealing (https://joker.com/domain/prices), except, e.g., for .com, it _does_ suggest that the Registrant can opt either for WHOIS privacy or not.
I was irked by, and aware of, the "unable to repoint glue records" annoyance, but would have been willing to live with that -- if it's still the same, long decades after I ceased using their services.
Unfortunately, none of the others you catalogue appear to appeal at all, with the possible exception fo the ex-Google Domains Squarespace registrar -- which you portray as as question mark.
Quoting Michael Paoli via BALUG-Admin (balug-admin@lists.balug.org):
I'd still highly recommend Gandi.net.
I've just initiated transfer of both my domains to Gandi, and I'll tell you why:
Although my escalation to IWantMyName management remains unaddressed (because UK weekend), _separately_ I recently received an auto-notice:
Just wanted to let you know that the following domain name(s) will be automatically renewed in 7 days:
linuxmafia.com (cancel at https://iwantmyname.com/dashboard/domains/expire/linuxmafia.com)
Total amount: $21.49 USD
We will charge the amount due to the credit card on file in your account. Please ensure that your billing details are up to date by logging in to your account and going to this page:
https://iwantmyname.com/dashboard/account/billing
Which is, um, interesting, because...
...I never enable autorenew. Therefore, CentralNic d/b/a IWantMyName (the new regime) must have enabled it on their own initiative.
Which is, um, business fraud.
I found a place to turn that off, and did so. Then, I removed my credit card from their records, unlocked the "Transfer Lock" on both domains, then got transfer auth codes for both domains, then completed the corresponding steps at Gandi (including providing the transfer auth codes) to move both domains there.
It's possible that upper management will wake up on Monday and decide they want my renewal money after all. I hope to verify completion of transfer _before_ then, and at that point I'll send a "Good luck on your future endeavours" farewell note to IWantMyName/CentralNic's sales address.
Gandi didn't allow me to pay _two_ years' fees during tranfer, which is a slight annoyance. I hope and expect that they will not make it difficult for me to extend the domains by each an additional year after they land.
(And yes, I'm aware that I'll be not allowed to make further moves of domains for 60 days after a transfer.)
On Sat, Jun 1, 2024 at 7:01 PM Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com wrote:
I've just initiated transfer of both my domains to Gandi, and I'll tell you why:
And if the losing registrar is prompt and doesn't drag their feet, and you watch your emails and take the appropriate actions (e.g. like using a confirmation URL) in a quite timely manner, then the transfer could be fully completed in a few hours or less. But alas, many registrars (e.g. NetworkSolutions.com/Web.com) will drag their feet and take the maximum time they can contractually get away with (which is I think 72 hours? I forget precisely how long. May also vary somewhat by TLD).
So, e.g. having dealt with AWS and Google as losing registrars, they also make it super fast and easy to transfer away - yet another sign of a generally at least competent or better registrar - while many others tend to drag their feet to the extent they can - typically apparently hoping to manage to hold onto the registration or get the person or such to change their mind - some will also hit one with lots of email(s) and/or other offers to attempt to not lose the registration. Heck, last I dealt with NetworkSolutions.com/Web.com, every time as renewal time approached, in order to get 'em from about 3x market rate to reasonably competitive rate, would have to start to go through the transfer motions, then they'd make sane offers on pricing, I'd accept those - but alas, those offers would also require opting into their spam^W"marketing" emails. And alas, while opting into that was always a single click, opting out would always require a phone call and 30 days to process.
And, somewhere at your losing registrar, at their higher levels of customer service and/or technical support - if they exist 8-O - they probably have some means of being able to extend domains, by positive integral number of years (up to whatever the maximum is, which may also vary by TLD) ... but alas, seems they quite lack the competence to reasonably well and easily do that - even via support request or the like (not a great sign). Sounds rather like lower-level folks (and they may lack the higher), "pushing buttons" - selecting among probably the only menu options they've given to such folks - in order to at least roughly/grossly (but not well at all) attempt to implement what they think the customer wants.
And, does sound like other not (so) competent registrars, e.g. a feature/capability that ought be easy for customers to do if they want, really shouldn't even require support email(s) or calls, should be able to do that easily enough from customer web interface ... yet seems they probably entirely lack that ... and heck, probably don't even have that capability available to their support/billing personnel. So, like Namecheap.com https://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=system:registrars#namecheapcom over a decade after customer(s) requesting it, still no capability on customer web interface to add or update IPv6 glue records. Whereas Gandi, that's dead simple, just type/paste in the desired IPv4 and/or IPv6 IP addresses, click, and done. It's not rocket science. But some registrars can't handle that. Or Joker.com https://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=system:registrars#jokercom being grossly incapable of even updating a single IPv4 glue record.
Thinking of billing/renewals, also reminds me of fsckup with NetworkSolutions.com/Web.com and billing and credit card(s). A domain where I was not registrant nor at all in any way officially connected to the domain's registration (I was not any kind of contact at all with registrar for the domain) was coming up on expiration, so ... I, using credit card, renewed it, as, like most registrars and domains, for non-expired domains, most will allow anyone to pay for a renewal prior to expiration, so, I did so. Anyway, did that on a single one-shot basis ... and I think I did that by phone - in any case, never asked for my card data to be added on to the (not my) account, etc. ... yet, alas, they stuck it on there and enabled auto-renew on it. Oh, and the kicker ... they wouldn't let me take it off of there! They'd only let the registrant remove my credit card from the billing or automatic renewal on the account! Ugh!
Well, sounds like your losing registrar is another that I ought add on https://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=system:registrars and noting (at least some of) the problems.
Oh, and thinking/speaking of renewing (well) before expiration ... so, Gandi.net - I've got 5 domains there ... current expirations range from 2024-07-04 through 2025-07-02, and all of them offer renew options - so can renew far in advance (though only one is presently reminding me about that, as it's <~=30 days ... and peeking at emails, they reminded me at 60 day's 'til expiration, so that's probably when they also changed it in the web interface to make the impending expiration much more visible. And, I've got no credit card nor the like stored on the account. So, let's see, if I pick the furthest one out there - expires 2025-07-02 ... with one click it'll let me add to shopping cart to extend it by a year - I don't see an option for multiple years though ... and ... no, it won't let me add that exact same item multiple times to the shopping cart ... ah, yes, ... click wee bit further on shopping cart towards checkout ... and can select integral number of years, so could extend that one by anywhere from 1 to 8 years. For the one expiring 2024-07-04 it will let me select 1 through 9 years ... just have to make it wee bit further in the process for that to be optional selection to be readily visible.
So ... already sounding helluva lot easier than your losing registrar? :-) Though with the post-transfer lock period, not sure if you'll be able to add additional years at that time, but after that should be no such restrictions (other than of course whatever the per TLD maximum number of years is). So, maybe UI could be teensy bit better, but it's pretty solid ... and I'd likely also find the info about how to add additional years if I actually went and (re)read some more of their excellent documentation.
Anyway, that also beats the hell out of many registrars where the documentation is lacking and/or incorrect.
Quoting Michael Paoli (michael.paoli@berkeley.edu):
But alas, many registrars (e.g. NetworkSolutions.com/Web.com) will drag their feet and take the maximum time they can contractually get away with (which is I think 72 hours? I forget precisely how long. May also vary somewhat by TLD).
That's my recollection, too.
IWantMyName (actually CentralNic) at this point, 4.5 hours in, still shows PENDINGTRANSFER. Detailed view shows "STEP 6 / 7". I.e., the incumbent registrar forking it over is the last thing needed.
I'm expecting release some time in the A.M., just as a hunch. But if they pull a NetSol, that'd be petty of them but harmess.
Already in my account is berkeleylug.com, for which I'm Admininstrative Contact. I note to my pleasure (as this ticks off a "must do" for my own domains) that "Renew" is possible at any time. Hitting "Renew" places a one-year renewal into the shopping cart; although there's no way to say you want n > 1 years added, though I guess you can go through the renewal for one year, pay, then repeat cycle as many times as desired(?). (I've occasionally kept domains as much as 3 years out from expiration, but never more than that. Perhaps I might want to if price increases were imminent.)
Late edit: I see you address the "multiple years extension" thing later.
And, somewhere at your losing registrar, at their higher levels of customer service and/or technical support - if they exist 8-O - they probably have some means of being able to extend domains, by positive integral number of years (up to whatever the maximum is, which may also vary by TLD) ... but alas, seems they quite lack the competence to reasonably well and easily do that - even via support request or the like (not a great sign). Sounds rather like lower-level folks (and they may lack the higher), "pushing buttons" - selecting among probably the only menu options they've given to such folks - in order to at least roughly/grossly (but not well at all) attempt to implement what they think the customer wants.
That's part of it -- and we've all seen this at support organisations suffering from the race to the bottom _including_ outsourcing to whatever nominally English-speaking country offers the lowest-paid serfs: Indeed, those techs are empowered only to do certain rote tasks, but, in the worst examples, they are also told to stick to "script" answers only -- often told they'll be fired if they improvise.
The handling of my support ticket seemed like a classic: He recited a rote "script" about the reasons why automated renewals works for one year only, even though I'd asked about _manual_ extension, because it was the closest match. It's also telling that, when I rejected that answer, saying it was nowhere near an answer to my request, I got utter silence -- because the trail of rote answers had run out.
Or Joker.com https://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=system:registrars#jokercom being grossly incapable of even updating a single IPv4 glue record.
Out of curiosity, has this been re-checked? When I discovered that to my indignation, it was a long time ago. Probably about 20 years ago.
[NetSol:]
Anyway, did that on a single one-shot basis ... and I think I did that by phone - in any case, never asked for my card data to be added on to the (not my) account, etc. ... yet, alas, they stuck it on there and enabled auto-renew on it. Oh, and the kicker ... they wouldn't let me take it off of there! They'd only let the registrant remove my credit card from the billing or automatic renewal on the account! Ugh!
Cheryl Morris, my mother-in-law, got vampirised by "Register.com", which IIRC is the same bunch of pirates, and what you describe was among the several outrages that I got her away from by transferring her (remaining) domain to... irony alert... IWantMyName.
Deirdre also has hers at the latter. I see more moves to Gandi in the near future, assuming I am not unpleasantly surprised (thought Deirdre will need to make up her own mind).
I don't see an option for multiple years though ... and ... no, it won't let me add that exact same item multiple times to the shopping cart ... ah, yes, ... click wee bit further on shopping cart towards checkout ... and can select integral number of years, so could extend that one by anywhere from 1 to 8 years.
More than good enough.
So ... already sounding helluva lot easier than your losing registrar? :-)
So far, so good.
On Sat, Jun 1, 2024 at 11:55 PM Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com wrote:
Quoting Michael Paoli (michael.paoli@berkeley.edu):
But alas, many registrars (e.g. NetworkSolutions.com/Web.com) will drag their feet and take the maximum time they can contractually get away with (which is I think 72 hours? I forget precisely how long. May also vary somewhat by TLD).
That's my recollection, too.
IWantMyName (actually CentralNic) at this point, 4.5 hours in, still shows PENDINGTRANSFER. Detailed view shows "STEP 6 / 7". I.e., the incumbent registrar forking it over is the last thing needed.
Yeah, sounds like one of the not-so-timely ones. If they gave the near instant capability, I'd expect they'd have sent you an email, that would also include a link (or other means) to basically say "do this now" - which would make things happen quite quickly. Short of that (or if they don't bother with giving such an option), I think they have to wait 72 hours, or something like that, for, e.g. registrant to object and block transfer (e.g. in case the attempt was rogue - the email notification is also there as a safety mechanism).
I'm expecting release some time in the A.M., just as a hunch. But if they pull a NetSol, that'd be petty of them but harmess.
Given that they didn't email with, e.g. link or some other option to make this happen "now" (quite quickly), I'm guessing 72 hours, or whatever that wait period is that allows registrant to object. And then after that I'd expect it to go through promptly without a hitch.
Already in my account is berkeleylug.com, for which I'm Admininstrative Contact. I note to my pleasure (as this ticks off a "must do" for my own domains) that "Renew" is possible at any time. Hitting "Renew" places a one-year renewal into the shopping cart; although there's no way to say you want n > 1 years added, though I guess you can go through the renewal for one year, pay, then repeat cycle as many times as desired(?). (I've occasionally kept domains as much as 3 years out from expiration, but never more than that. Perhaps I might want to if price increases were imminent.)
Late edit: I see you address the "multiple years extension" thing later.
Yeah, ... capability is there and in the interface, but yes, could be more intuitive in the interface.
And, somewhere at your losing registrar, at their higher levels of customer service and/or technical support - if they exist 8-O - they probably have some means of being able to extend domains, by positive integral number of years (up to whatever the maximum is, which may also vary by TLD) ... but alas, seems they quite lack the competence to reasonably well and easily do that - even via support request or the like (not a great sign). Sounds rather like lower-level folks (and they may lack the higher), "pushing buttons" - selecting among probably the only menu options they've given to such folks - in order to at least roughly/grossly (but not well at all) attempt to implement what they think the customer wants.
That's part of it -- and we've all seen this at support organisations suffering from the race to the bottom _including_ outsourcing to whatever nominally English-speaking country offers the lowest-paid serfs: Indeed, those techs are empowered only to do certain rote tasks, but, in the worst examples, they are also told to stick to "script" answers only -- often told they'll be fired if they improvise.
The handling of my support ticket seemed like a classic: He recited a rote "script" about the reasons why automated renewals works for one year only, even though I'd asked about _manual_ extension, because it was the closest match. It's also telling that, when I rejected that answer, saying it was nowhere near an answer to my request, I got utter silence -- because the trail of rote answers had run out.
Or Joker.com https://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=system:registrars#jokercom being grossly incapable of even updating a single IPv4 glue record.
Out of curiosity, has this been re-checked? When I discovered that to my indignation, it was a long time ago. Probably about 20 years ago.
Haven't rechecked ... I don't know that there'd be a feasible way to recheck it without actually having a domain there ... as, if I recall correctly, their interface had the input capabilities ... but it didn't work, nor could their staff figure out how to do the needed - and in fact they gave information that would've effectively been a work-around ... if it actually worked ... but it didn't work at all. They basically said drop the record entirely, then readd it ... that never worked - even waiting out the necessary TTLs - there was no way for customer to remove the old glue record at all - even if the corresponding NS was removed ... and Joker.com was so incompetent that despite repeated support requests they themselves also couldn't manage to do the needed - so after setting time limits for it to be resolved (it wasn't resolved) ... came time to move on. I also won't miss Joker.com's web interface that looks like a bad web design from the late 1990s with tons of ads all over the dang place.
[NetSol:]
Anyway, did that on a single one-shot basis ... and I think I did that by phone - in any case, never asked for my card data to be added on to the (not my) account, etc. ... yet, alas, they stuck it on there and enabled auto-renew on it. Oh, and the kicker ... they wouldn't let me take it off of there! They'd only let the registrant remove my credit card from the billing or automatic renewal on the account! Ugh!
Cheryl Morris, my mother-in-law, got vampirised by "Register.com", which IIRC is the same bunch of pirates, and what you describe was among the
Yeah, ... looks like the same bunch ... a peek at whois for web.com ... and the registrar for web.com is registrar.com so part of the same horrible bunch.
several outrages that I got her away from by transferring her (remaining) domain to... irony alert... IWantMyName.
Hey, iWantMyName ... not as bad as NetworkSolutions.com/Web.com/Register.com ... uhm, ... but that's not saying much - that's a very low bar - would be hard for an ant to limbo under.
Deirdre also has hers at the latter. I see more moves to Gandi in the near future, assuming I am not unpleasantly surprised (thought Deirdre will need to make up her own mind).
Yes, ... for better and/or worse, I see many, that if they're not running into issues, they'll leave it as/where is, as "good enough" - at least for the time being ... and I'm sure I'm also guilty of that too, at least at times and/or on some matters, etc.
And, race to the bottom ... many opt for least expensive. But alas, fail to well consider total cost of ownership - and one's time is a valuable resource ... and/or they just don't know how flawed and/or bad a particular registrar is (many don't well research first ... also many may not much care about many of the issues you and I tend to care about ... well, at least not until they run into that as a problem, anyway). So, while paying top dollar isn't a guarantee of best or even close (e.g. NetworkSolutions.com/Web.com/Registrar.com and their typical gouging of default prices and pushing all kinds of extra gunk all the time), bottom dollar is almost always a guarantee of something at or near the bottom of the barrel - as they won't have the margins/flexibility/budget to well maintain or improve services, and often to the contrary that's the first and biggest thing they cut - services - mostly looking at it as nothing more than expense to be minimized. But by the time they figure out they may be, with that, minimizing their number of customers, it might be too late. But alas, many of 'em continue to attract new relatively clueless customers based on mere cheap price alone.
I don't see an option for multiple years though ... and ... no, it won't let me add that exact same item multiple times to the shopping cart ... ah, yes, ... click wee bit further on shopping cart towards checkout ... and can select integral number of years, so could extend that one by anywhere from 1 to 8 years.
More than good enough.
So ... already sounding helluva lot easier than your losing registrar? :-)
So far, so good.
Quoting Michael Paoli (michael.paoli@berkeley.edu):
Yeah, sounds like one of the not-so-timely ones. If they gave the near instant capability, I'd expect they'd have sent you an email, that would also include a link (or other means) to basically say "do this now" - which would make things happen quite quickly.
There appeared to be one last step I was unaware of / had forgotten about: When I checked the IWantMyName customer WebUI this morning for the two domains, each had a green button for me to "approve" the pending transfer. I pushed it. A short while later, the two domains were de-listed from IWantMyName. They status in Gandi has, at this writing, not yet updated, with the detailed step (in Advanced View) showing "Validation of the transfer by the former provider We are waiting for your current provider to accept or refuse this transfer. It should arrive in your account before Jun 8, 2024 unless they refuse it."
WHOIS shows now as a Gandi domains, with the correct nameservers, but the detailed information for Registrant, etc., isn't yet there.
Given that they didn't email with, e.g. link or some other option to make this happen "now" (quite quickly), I'm guessing 72 hours, or whatever that wait period is that allows registrant to object.
To be clear, yes, no e-mail arrived saying I needed to push those green buttons, yet, in fairness, the buttons were presumably there about the time I went to sleep, thus could have OKed the transfer then.
Transfer is now complete. E-mails from Gandi prompted me to do a "confirmation" of transfer intent, corresponding to the "approve" green button at incumbent registrar IWantMyName.
Rick,
Congrats and welcome to Gandi.net! Let the sanity and competence begin! :-) So, curious, within the (I presume) 60 day lock after transfer, does it already give you a renew option to be able to extend? I'm guessing it may not ... but if not now, should then have that option once the initial lock (from fresh transfer) period has passed.
And, looks like Gandi.net has a safety step to confirm accepting the transfer to go through (or speed it up). And well, at least your losing registrar wasn't too horrible in letting you go without too much pain/delay (like I say, the low bar of NetworkSolution.com/Web.com/Register.com is easily beat even by many that are still quite unsatisfactory or far from ideal).
On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 9:43 AM Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com wrote:
Transfer is now complete. E-mails from Gandi prompted me to do a "confirmation" of transfer intent, corresponding to the "approve" green button at incumbent registrar IWantMyName.
Quoting Michael Paoli (michael.paoli@berkeley.edu):
Congrats and welcome to Gandi.net! Let the sanity and competence begin! :-) So, curious, within the (I presume) 60 day lock after transfer, does it already give you a renew option to be able to extend? I'm guessing it may not ... but if not now, should then have that option once the initial lock (from fresh transfer) period has passed.
Extension just now complete.
$ whois linuxmafia.com | grep "Expiry" Registry Expiry Date: 2027-07-17T04:00:00Z $ whois unixmercenary.net | grep "Expiry" Registry Expiry Date: 2027-08-11T15:44:35Z $
My understanding is that the 60-day freeze was only on further outbound transfers.
I wrote:
My understanding is that the 60-day freeze was only on further outbound transfers.
Gandi.net _allows_ me to toggle off "Transfer Lock" (I tested), but the caption warns "Please note that a transfer out may be blocked by the extension's registry policy during the first 60 days following creation."
ICANN has alleged documentation about the 60-day thing, here. https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/name-holder-faqs-2017-10-10-en
Why can't I transfer a domain name I just registered to another registrar?
There are certain situations that can prevent a domain name from being transferred to a different registrar, such as a new registration. Your registrar may deny a transfer request if the domain name is within 60 days of initial registration. Another situation is if the domain name is subject to a 60-day Change of Registrant lock. You cannot transfer a domain name to a different registrar within 60 days of making changes to the registrant name, organization or email address (or the Administrative Contact email address, if there is no registrant email address). At their discretion, some registrars may provide an option for you to opt-out of this 60-day lock period. However, this rule is in place for your protection against unauthorized transfers and the registrar does not have to offer this option. If your ultimate goal is to transfer the domain name, you may want to consider completing the transfer process before changing your contact information.
Registrars also have the option of denying a transfer request within 60 days from when you last transferred the domain name to a different registrar. You may have the option to change web-hosting providers instead of registrars to avoid the inter-registrar transfer process (and lock) altogether. You may also update your domain name's nameservers or change the hosting IP address assigned to your domain name. Check with your registrar and/or hosting provider to see what options you have.
Par for the course for registrar documentation: Maybe you'd be permitted to transfer within 60 days of a transfer or of making certain changes, if you need to, or maybe not. Magic 8 Ball hazy!
However, as goofy as that FAQ answer is, the tip about _not_ touching any of your contact details on any domain you may soon wish to transfer is an excellent one.
I wrote:
My understanding is that the 60-day freeze was only on further outbound transfers.
...and ICANN saws _some_ registrars impose such a freeze, while others do not. FWIW, Gandi's customer WebUI strongly implies that it does _not_ introduce any such obstacle. Yet another point for it.
An aspect of Gandi's process that was a little concerning:
At a certain point, this morning, after I hit the green buttons in IWantMyName's customer WebUI, the two domains disappeared from that registrar's listings, showing that I now hosted _no_ domains, there. Er, OK so far....
So, I turned to Gandi's customer WebUI: It remained unchanged, showing the indicators previously described of needing to get final release from the incumbent registrar. Notably, the customer WebUI _said nothing_ about action required by me elsewhere. It didn't say "Look at your e-mail for notice of a link to confirm the transfer, and, if you didn't get that e-mail, do [X]."
That is concerning, but what is _more_ concerning is what happened next: A while after I pressed those green buttons over at IWantMyName, the two "pending" domains _also_ vanished from the Gandi customer WebUI. Again, _zero_ about looking for an e-mail, or what you should do if you didn't get the e-mail.
Fortunately, I _did_ have access to my e-mail, looked at my e-mail, and saw a pair of e-mails with Subject header "[GANDI] [Action required] Confirmation of domain name ownership change". Each described a domain pending transfer, and gave a link at migrate.gandi.net with a unique hash, to "complete the process".
At the indicated pages, I was prompted to specify the owning entity, which I supplied as "Rick Moen Network Consulting". _Then_, the transfer completsd. I've verified that DNS has moved over unchanged and that public WHOIS is as desired.
One more oddity of configuring information for the domains, in the early stages of transfer. I had the option to elect non-private WHOIS for not only Registrant, Administrative Contact, and Technical Contact, but also for Billing Contact. So, I thought, why not? I toggled that to "public", too.
I am not surprised to see that the public WHOIS data, however, _omits_ showing Billing Contact at all -- because ISTR that's been the convention all the way back to early Network Solutions monopoly days. So, I gather, somewhere deep within Gandi's records, the "private" flag for Billing Contact is set to "N", but with zero practical effect on the WHOIS end, for reasons unclear but possibly a global setting in the WHOIS server software.
For any who're interested, Gandi's extension price per additional year:
$23.99 linuxmafia.com (was $14.34 to transfer in) $24.99 unixmercenary.net (was $15.74 to transfer in)
The step-up in price from the new-customer sweetheart deal is, of course, expected. Punishment of customer loyalty is the rule, in the registrar business.
Rates vary by volume; some other discounts also may apply. E.g. Debian Developers (DDs) get their greatest (E Rates) discount rate (DDs used to get free once upon a time). And, no funky business. Can look it all up, so, shouldn't be any surprises. And yes, some of their interfaces and documentation may have some slight flaws/deficiencies ... wanna see 'em (likely) fixed? Just create a support ticket on it, they generally get the stuff done! (even fixed a very minor issue I reported before I was even a customer! Compare that to, e.g. Namecheap.com that, after more than a decade still hasn't fixed much more significant issues requested by multiple customers). I'm not sure, but they may also have email address and/or web form or the like for reporting "webmaster" type things to fix (e.g. minor edits and link issues and such). And such may or may not be better than using the basic support ticket route (and that might also have a simple option to select "webmaster" for the relevant types of issues - I've been with Gandi many years, ... and so far only had a single occasion where I've opened up any type of support request).
Anyway, e.g. rates, USD, com.: https://www.gandi.net/en-US/domain/tld?prefix=c#tld-table A Rates (default, e.g. you're relative small fry and have only a single domain): TLDs Creation Transfer Renewal Owner Change Restore .com $17.75 $14.34 $23.99 FREE $139.10 (A Rates) ... .com $10.08 $9.74 $20.99 FREE $53.50 (E Rates)
And this is unlike (most/many) other registrars, where, e.g. one doesn't know and/or can't predict well ahead of time, what they'll charge for renewal, and/or may have to play some song-and-dance to get 'em to a reasonably competitive renewal price. So, anyway, the prices on Gandi.net certainly aren't some deep dark secret and/or black magic - all quite predictable and easy to see and find.
Gandi.com - "no bullshit" policy - still very much applies.
On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 11:19 AM Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com wrote:
For any who're interested, Gandi's extension price per additional year:
$23.99 linuxmafia.com (was $14.34 to transfer in) $24.99 unixmercenary.net (was $15.74 to transfer in)
The step-up in price from the new-customer sweetheart deal is, of course, expected. Punishment of customer loyalty is the rule, in the registrar business.
While I'm at it, there's another criterion for a good vs. bad registrar: Ability to end the business relationship at the customer's request, promptly. About which more to follow.
When I rescued Cheryl Morris, my dementia-impaired mother-in-law, from the clutches of "Register.com" (the same Web.com pirates in Florida who now own NetSol), several of their crooked measures offended me so thoroughly* that I was determined to leave it _extremely_ clear, after I migrated her one needed domain elsewhere, that Ms. Morris was permanently ending all business dealings and required:
1. That Register.com delete all records of her credit card. 2. That Register.com delete all personal information. 3. That Register.com cease all contact.
_And_, what really made me see red was: Register.com's customer Web site had no facility whatsoever for closing an account. Inquiring revealed that anyone _wishing_ to close an account cannot do that via the Web site, or even _initiate_ that via the Web site, but must call the Support telephone line during Florida business hours.
I called Support. I was terse but carefully polite to the agent, who after all had done nothing wrong personally, but just was working for crooks. I'm sure he was aware that I was boiling mad, despite my calm and polite wording.
He kept offering me half-a-loaf, along the lines of "the account will remain until [blah]", and I kept coming back with "No, Ms. Morris adamantly requires, not requests, that all business relations cease permanently and completely, today, now, as of this telephone call. As of right now, you are officially notified that Ms. Morris is not a Register.com customer, that your firm has zero existing business relationship with her, and that any further contact will be consider to be harassment and may bring legal consequences."
After a few rounds of this, he gave a half-hearted promise of no further contact. This of course was not true: Cheryl received a number of other automated attempts to sucker her into re-upping.
Anyway, my point is this: A truly good customer should have a well-documented, easy to find process for closing the customer account.
Surprise: IWantMyName's documentation about "close account" is better than Gandi's. IWantMyName has a _relatively_ easy to locate document that explains you can request closure by contacting Support, but that the company must then follow-up, which is reasonable, I guess.
By contrast, Gandi doesn't properly address the matter. I did find a similar statement hidden much worse than the other guys did.
* I can't even remember _all_ of the outrages, but it starts with Cheryl, in mental decline, having been unable to resist pushing default buttons waved in front of her on Web pages. Consequently, Register.com had succeeded in selling her numerous other domains for which she had no use and also no DNS or content. Also, they had succeeded in selling her wildly overexpense SSL services redundant to the Let's Encrypt certs Deirdre enabled on her Web site. Also, they had succeeded in selling her a number of other totally useless "proection" pseudo-services. All of thise was costing her a large amount of money on an ongoing basis. Moreover, some of these value-add services were hidden on obscure sub-pages of the customer Web site, such that, after I thought I'd terminated all the unwanted monthly services, I waited a month and then saw that there were _still_ junk charges to her credit card, and then had to find where _else_ on the customer Web site to find and disable those.
Cheryl had gotten herself deep into orders of this-and-that pointless goods and services, not just at Register.com but also many other places -- always with autorenew enabled. Getting her out of the deep hole she was in required that Deirdre and I get her through personal bankruptcy, and eventually to, with regret, take away all of her means of spending money on the Internet.