FYI.
----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com -----
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:59:58 -0700 From: Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com To: dvlug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [dvlug] Smaug Case Study
I wrote:
Along those lines, a lesson that can be learned from BALUG's example: That group has a history almost as long as SVLUG's, but you'd never know that from looking at their Web site. Why? Because, long ago, they got into the bad habit of erasing all data about their meetings immediately after each meeting occurs. By contrast, look at http://www.svlug.org/prevmeet.php, which has details of every general meeting SVLUG's held back to 1998. (The group existed for ten years before that, too -- but that history is lost except for what's written on http://www.svlug.org/about.php .)
To amplify on that point: If you look at http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-admin-balug.org/, you see the mailing list's history abruptly start in March 2005 with postings about "transitioning some of the mailing list maintenance".
What happened?
Cast your minds back to 1996[1] when network consultant Dave Sifry and his friend Art Tyde launched BALUG, just as they were also starting to put together their new firm Linuxcare, Inc. Tyde (the group's founding president) originally called it SFLUG or SFBALUG, but Sifry created a Majordomo mailing list called "balug", which then became the name of the group, and it registered balug.org to point to the virtual-hosted Web presence on Sifry's server. They roped webmaster Cydny Fire Eisner and several other volunteers (including me) to maintain the Web site. BALUG started holding monthly speaker presentations at Four Seas Restaurant in Chinatown, which still occur.
About a year or so later, a new webmaster who didn't like Eisner's taste for purple "redesigned" the Web site, and in so doing threw away all of BALUG's meeting history up to that date. (Agh!) Also in that time frame, the mailing lists were transitioned from Majordomo to Mailman, and nobody bothered to migrate the cumulative mbox of prior postings. (Agh!) Those have been lost completely.
Years passed, with many years of valuable postings going to the Web archives of the Mailman mailing list. Linuxcare imploded in 2001 right at the beginning of the dot-com collapse (long story, which cannot be truthfully told without someone getting sued), and BALUG went mostly derelict as Sifry and Tyde attempted to do other business ventures. (Sifry now operates small Web 2.0 outfit Technorati.)
Around 2005, new volunteers Michael Hubbard, Larry Platzek, and Dick Verma stepped in and adopted the group. Nobody bothered to get the cumulative mbox file from Sifry (Agh!), assuming it still existed, which I'm unsure about. So, instead, they simply created new mailing lists virtual-hosted at Dreamhost, and also a virtual-hosted Web site there.
And recently, one of the new Web volunteers decided to "redesign" the Web site again, once again in the process throwing away all of BALUG's collected history on its pages. (Agh!)
Volunteer Michael Paoli says he's managed to find practically all (or maybe literally all) of the former balug-talk mailing list archive in Web/html format, which is not as good as mbox format, but we might be able to reconstruct / approximate the mbox after some work using sed and awk (or Perl, if someone is a Perlista). So, those years are lost for now, but maybe not irretrievably.
SVLUG's mailing list archives are complete all the way back to January 1999 when the conversion from Majordomo to Mailman occurred, _and_ the Majordomo mbox covering Sept. 1997 to Jan 1999 still exists, too: http://lists.svlug.org/archives/svlug.mbox/majordomo.mbox
I intend to (finally) merge the Majordomo mbox into the Mailman cumulative one (http://lists.svlug.org/archives/svlug.mbox/svlug.mbox), when we migrate the group's mailing lists and e-mail systems off the legacy box.
Point is: It doesn't require a lot of effort to avoid losing a group's history. It really requires just caring, and making a very modest effort.
[1] Earliest reference I can find is Nov. 1996. Elsewhere (http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-admin-balug.org/2005-September/000078...), I've posted that Sifry and Tyde founded the group in 1997. I seem to been off by a year -- but that's the sort of thing that happens when a group obliterates its own history.
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----- End forwarded message -----
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com wrote:
[1] Earliest reference I can find is Nov. 1996. Elsewhere (http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-admin-balug.org/2005-September/000078...), I've posted that Sifry and Tyde founded the group in 1997. I seem to been off by a year -- but that's the sort of thing that happens when a group obliterates its own history.
I found a Usenet archive of a posting to comp.os.linux.misc from July, 1997 that announce the 1 year anniversary meeting, so 1996 would be correct.
For look back at previous versions of the BALUG web site from the Internet Archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.balug.org
For a snapshot of the original mail list, as of April, 1999:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990203040039/balug.org/resMail.html
The next snapshot after that was taken by the Internet Archive in October of 1999, which was after the new site design had wiped out the original one.
For an incomplete list of some early speakers:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990202183446/balug.org/meetOld.html
Mike
Myself, and at least several other folks are rather to quite interested in reconstruction much of BALUG's history (and getting much of it online). Though it may be a rather slow-moving project, I have made much progress on that - pulled lots of stuff from various sources, etc. ... there's still also a fair bit of data to be recovered from a moderately misconfigured setup ... anyway, more on that later ... there probably will be some gaps which may be difficult to well or completely fill, but much of the material should eventually be reconstructed pretty well.
For one peek at a hint of possible things to come, have a peek at: http://www.test.balug.org/mpaoli/past/ Do note the above is a DRAFT (that's more evident if one starts at: http://www.test.balug.org/mpaoli/ )
A fair bit of this was covered on the "admin" list before ... but quite a while back (probably over a year since the topic was discussed much and/or I provided an update on status/progress).
Anyway, more a bit later, in separate posting.
Quoting "Mike Higashi" mhigashi@gmail.com:
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com wrote:
[1] Earliest reference I can find is Nov. 1996. Elsewhere (http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-admin-balug.org/2005-September/000078...), I've posted that Sifry and Tyde founded the group in 1997. I seem to been off by a year -- but that's the sort of thing that happens when a group obliterates its own history.
I found a Usenet archive of a posting to comp.os.linux.misc from July, 1997 that announce the 1 year anniversary meeting, so 1996 would be correct.
For look back at previous versions of the BALUG web site from the Internet Archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.balug.org
For a snapshot of the original mail list, as of April, 1999:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990203040039/balug.org/resMail.html
The next snapshot after that was taken by the Internet Archive in October of 1999, which was after the new site design had wiped out the original one.
For an incomplete list of some early speakers:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990202183446/balug.org/meetOld.html