Exactly as I predicted, the jobs postings moved from one list to the other. At least that gets them off balug-announce -- but that leaves the question of whether we're OK with them landing on balug-talk. (My personal opinion is "No" -- and that, instead, we should have a Web page listing suggested places for job-seekers.)
The default of no action will equate to "It's fine." FYI.
----- Forwarded message from Blair Mandell bmandell@availigent.com -----
From: Blair Mandell bmandell@availigent.com To: balug-talk@lists.balug.org Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:23:27 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Subject: [balug-talk] Linux Kernel Engineer (Checkpointing) Fulltime position in San Jose - Direct Hire
Availigent is the leading provider of affordable, transparent and automatic high availability for Linux-based enterprise applications, giving companies peace of mind during planned and unplanned downtimes.
We are specifically looking for a Linux Kernel S/W Developer to design, develop and maintain Availigent's Checkpointer, a kernel level technology that keeps track of the application's state. You will be responsible for architecture, design, implementation, code review, documentation and testing.
This is a full time position w/benefits in San Jose, CA.
Send a resume to: Blair Availigent Email: bmandell AT availigent.com
=============================================================
Responsibilities: * Design, develop and maintain Availigent's Checkpointer, a kernel level technology that keeps track of the application's state. * Architecture, design, implementation, code review, documentation and testing. * Working as a member of the engineering team.
Skills/Experience: * Experience in C programming * Expertise in distributed, multi-process, and multi-threaded programming in a Linux environment. * Experience in high-availability and fault-tolerance technologies, such as checkpointing, fault detection and recovery, and event notification is highly desirable. * A track record of designing, developing and releasing quality commercial enterprise software on time and to specification. * Excellent troubleshooting and debugging skills.
If you are interested send your resume to me at: bmandell@availigent.com
Other openings: http://www.availigent.com/company_jobs.shtml
_______________________________________________ balug-talk mailing list balug-talk@lists.balug.org http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org
----- End forwarded message -----
Rick Moen wrote:
Exactly as I predicted, the jobs postings moved from one list to the other. At least that gets them off balug-announce -- but that leaves the question of whether we're OK with them landing on balug-talk. (My personal opinion is "No" -- and that, instead, we should have a Web page listing suggested places for job-seekers.)
Yeah, one reason I let them just queue up.
I didn't want to have to advocate a balug-spam group.
Quoting X-Caliber (xcaliber@xav.to):
Yeah, one reason I let them just queue up.
I didn't want to have to advocate a balug-spam group.
Noted. Of course, the _smart_ posters of jobs (and ones towards whom I'm a bit more sympathetic) bother to _join_ before posting. Their posts don't get held -- but we might want to consider policy regarding those, nonetheless.
Y'all might not actually care much, for all I know. Which is fine, and possibly better. My prejudices result from seeing mailing lists overrun during dot-com days. If that never hits balug-talk, maybe it's a non-issue.
Well, the "talk" (balug-talk@lists.balug.org) list is (relatively) open unmoderated discussion (from subscribers of the list), and we've not set a hard-and-fast policy on "job posting" and such on the "talk" list. But as it's unmoderated discussion, if/when "job postings" policy (or lack thereof) for "talk" becomes an issue, we can always tweak/adjust policy as appropriate for that list. E.g. if we see a long "hot" thread there with lots of participants and a definitive plurality or better on direction things should take, then we can take such direction. I don't think I've yet seen such on that list - certainly not at least within the past 3 years or so. As long as we keep a reasonable eye on it (I think at least most of us are also subscribed to the "talk" list), and take reasonable actions if/when it becomes an issue, we'll do okay there. In the meantime, at least thus far, it seems mostly or entirely a non-issue for the "talk" list. Of course we've had no shortage of opinions and such regarding the "announce" list :-).
Quoting X-Caliber xcaliber@xav.to:
Rick Moen wrote:
Exactly as I predicted, the jobs postings moved from one list to the other. At least that gets them off balug-announce -- but that leaves the question of whether we're OK with them landing on balug-talk. (My personal opinion is "No" -- and that, instead, we should have a Web page listing suggested places for job-seekers.)
Yeah, one reason I let them just queue up.
I didn't want to have to advocate a balug-spam group.
Other LUGS have significantly varying job postings policies. These range from, e.g. a specific list for "jobs", and prohibited elsewhere, the BUUG "inside track" rule (e.g. you're the hiring manager, or the position is within the group you work and you're intimately familiar with the position and environment, or other similar quite close ties to the position, and no recruiter/agency postings at all). Others don't have specific policies regarding "job" postings. Anyway, for the BALUG "talk" list, we can probably defer setting a "job" postings policy on that list until such time as it is or looks to be becoming an issue for that list.
Also (not that anyone besides myself might notice ;-)) I've generally indicated/stated, regarding job postings, not that they *are*, but rather that they *may be* appropriate for the "talk" list. Whether or not they *are* appropriate there, probably ends up a matter of plurality opinion of folks on the "talk" list - which will probably also get shaped by what shows up on "talk" and/or how much plastering (or lack thereof) of job announcements and such these folks might also see from other sources.
I'm not sure if BALUG ever had, at least historically (<~=2003) a job posting policy and/or policy(/ies) regarding such for specific BALUG lists. Last I recall, much of the older list archive stuff had become seriously munged, so even if there's an "answer" or particular useful historical information there, it might be relatively infeasible to access.
Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli@cal.berkeley.edu):
[balug-talk:]
But as it's unmoderated discussion, if/when "job postings" policy (or lack thereof) for "talk" becomes an issue, we can always tweak/adjust policy as appropriate for that list.
This seems like the emerging consensus.
E.g. if we see a long "hot" thread there with lots of participants and a definitive plurality or better on direction things should take, then we can take such direction.
Just a comment: You don't get "threads" with jobs postings, typically -- which points to one reason why they're a bit out of place: They're completely disconnected from all Linux discussion -- like advertising spots among programming. That's because, well, they _are_ advertising, for which none of us gets paid. (_Generally_ speaking, the people who post job ads never post on any other topic, and have no interest in the LUG other than as a free advertising medium.)
The other problem, which has not lately been a problem at BALUG, is quantity. I.e., during the boom, scattershot jobs postings from (in particular) professional recruiters swamped LUG mailing lists. Many of those postigns were ludicrously inappropriate, e.g., ads for Microsoft Exchange administrators. It became evident that many recruiters were just carpet-bombing all the vaguely technical mailing lists they knew of, and paying no attention to what each list is _about_.
After several years of IT downturn, we've been seeing a small boom in jobs postings again (and still trending upwards), which is what got me concerned. Bear in mind that most of you won't have seen a lot of the early signs: A recent small flood of clue-deficient recruiters have been blitzing LUG _announce_ mailing lists with things like "Hi, would you please put this job posting on your Web site?"
Experience suggests that those people cannot be taught manners and competence: There's no percentage in it, for them. Like spammers, they just make it up in volume.
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006, Rick Moen wrote:
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:32:17 -0700 From: Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com To: balug-admin@lists.balug.org Subject: [balug-admin] Jobs postings have moved to balug-talk
Exactly as I predicted, the jobs postings moved from one list to the other. At least that gets them off balug-announce -- but that leaves the question of whether we're OK with them landing on balug-talk. (My personal opinion is "No" -- and that, instead, we should have a Web page listing suggested places for job-seekers.)
Dick Verna's and mine opion was/is that if a company wants to post job opennings they should be willing to speak to the group (we are short of speaker for balug).
The default of no action will equate to "It's fine." FYI.
----- Forwarded message from Blair Mandell bmandell@availigent.com -----
From: Blair Mandell bmandell@availigent.com To: balug-talk@lists.balug.org Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:23:27 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Subject: [balug-talk] Linux Kernel Engineer (Checkpointing) Fulltime position in San Jose - Direct Hire
Availigent is the leading provider of affordable, transparent and automatic high availability for Linux-based enterprise applications, giving companies peace of mind during planned and unplanned downtimes.
We are specifically looking for a Linux Kernel S/W Developer to design, develop and maintain Availigent's Checkpointer, a kernel level technology that keeps track of the application's state. You will be responsible for architecture, design, implementation, code review, documentation and testing.
This is a full time position w/benefits in San Jose, CA.
Send a resume to: Blair Availigent Email: bmandell AT availigent.com
=============================================================
Responsibilities:
- Design, develop and maintain Availigent's Checkpointer, a kernel level
technology that keeps track of the application's state.
- Architecture, design, implementation, code review, documentation and
testing.
- Working as a member of the engineering team.
Skills/Experience:
- Experience in C programming
- Expertise in distributed, multi-process, and multi-threaded
programming in a Linux environment.
- Experience in high-availability and fault-tolerance technologies, such
as checkpointing, fault detection and recovery, and event notification is highly desirable.
- A track record of designing, developing and releasing quality
commercial enterprise software on time and to specification.
- Excellent troubleshooting and debugging skills.
If you are interested send your resume to me at: bmandell@availigent.com
Other openings: http://www.availigent.com/company_jobs.shtml
balug-talk mailing list balug-talk@lists.balug.org http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org
----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ balug-admin mailing list balug-admin@lists.balug.org http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-admin-balug.org
Larry Platzek larryp@inow.com
Quoting Larry Platzek (larryp@inow.com):
Dick Verna's and mine opion was/is that if a company wants to post job opennings they should be willing to speak to the group (we are short of speaker for balug).
An excellent idea. Should we make this official on the balug-talk listadmin page text?